Increasing ticket prices?
- Thread starter prettypixie
- Start date
Yep...heard about that one.
Of more important news for me, and maybe some others out there, was the annual pass news...sounds like those renewing APs after Aug 2 are going to get an extra 3 months - so renew for a year but get 15 months.
I hope that deal sticks around until my next AP renewal - apparently it's valid for standard or FL resident passes.
Of more important news for me, and maybe some others out there, was the annual pass news...sounds like those renewing APs after Aug 2 are going to get an extra 3 months - so renew for a year but get 15 months.
I hope that deal sticks around until my next AP renewal - apparently it's valid for standard or FL resident passes.
It's official, over 5% for adults, and almost 8% for kids:
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/s ... rices.html
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/s ... rices.html
Ouch! ; And Disney just showed signs of slowing the bleeding yesterday in their quarterly financials...looked like they were pulling around the corner from the recession and wouldn't need to make any drastic moves.
For me, the sad thing is that they are raising the ticket prices while at the very same time giving away all kinds of freebies and promotions to get more people to come. ; Sort of contradictory if you ask me - stop giving things away, and you wouldn't have to raise the prices to make up for it. ; All this 4 for 3, free dining, free upgrades to DVC rooms, etc is packing the parks, but not gaining Disney very much, if not actually costing them.
For me, the sad thing is that they are raising the ticket prices while at the very same time giving away all kinds of freebies and promotions to get more people to come. ; Sort of contradictory if you ask me - stop giving things away, and you wouldn't have to raise the prices to make up for it. ; All this 4 for 3, free dining, free upgrades to DVC rooms, etc is packing the parks, but not gaining Disney very much, if not actually costing them.
yeah, what Justin said. the biggest problem for my family is that none of the free "perks" pertain to us as DVC members with annual passes. ; can't get free dining or a 4/3 package since it wouldn't be financially prudent to pay for a MYW ticket with an AP just to get the free stuff yet we paid $$$$$ for DVC and a pile more each year for passes. ; frustrating.
it's ironic how the DVC sales pitch stresses "owning" over "renting" yet the renters get most of the perks. ; and... ; good luck getting good ADRs during the promotional periods unless you want to eat very early or very late. ; I am not a fan of the DDP, what is has become, and what it has done to the restaurants/menus/service either. ;
it's ironic how the DVC sales pitch stresses "owning" over "renting" yet the renters get most of the perks. ; and... ; good luck getting good ADRs during the promotional periods unless you want to eat very early or very late. ; I am not a fan of the DDP, what is has become, and what it has done to the restaurants/menus/service either. ;
WDWFigment
Member
"Tim" said:
I completely agree with you about the DDP and what it's done to the quality of the restaurants, and everything else is frustrating as well, but I still think as DVC owners, we have a lot better deals.
For instance, as DVC owners, we get $110 off the price of Annual Passes. ; If you're going a reasonable amount of times to WDW (last I knew the break even point was 12 days), buying an AP is cheaper than any MYW tickets, even the discounted ones through Undercover Tourist and those types of sites. ; These package deals that they offer may seem like good prices, but the best deals are rarely in the packages, with some exceptions. ; AP holders have really good room-only rates, to which you can add the DDP (I know this doesn't do anything if you're using DVC points--just to illustrate that there are good deals for all). ; The DVC sales pitch may stress the value of the program, but it also does so with very fuzzy math. ; Once you account for the time-value of money, owning DVC should not be viewed as something that will save you money. ; We bought into it this summer because we want to be able to have a certain type of accommodation, because of the residual benefits, and simply because it was something that we really wanted (and honestly, you aren't going to invest every dollar you have intelligently, might as well "invest" in your vacation). ; But I understand your points, it would be nice to be thrown some bones every once in a while.
Maybe it's just the cynic in me, but I think raising the prices while offering these discounts is a good move for Disney, albeit a frustrating one. ; It's similar to raising the prices at the restaurants over the years since the DDP has come into being, while lowering the quality. ; Few people are paying these prices, but rather, they are getting packages. ; If Disney raises the prices, people perceive that they are getting a better deal (your savings jump from 41% off to 43% (or whatever) without any change in the package price!). ; I don't think most people are going to scrutinize the offers, rather, they will be happier because "this year we're saving more!" ; I call this the "Kohls phenomenon."
As Craig points out, a lot of times, you're better off piecing individual components together to make your own deal, rather than getting one of the off-the-shelf deals (buy 4, get 3 may be a good deal if you're in an expensive room, but in a cheap room, you could save more otherwise since most of your "savings" will be on the tickets...and as we know, the tickets begin to drop off dramatically in price around day 5, so those "free" 3 days are much much cheaper than the first 4. ; The converse is true for expensive rooms and the "free" dining. ; You're better off with the discount on the room). ; I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are discounts for everyone, you just have to look for them. ; It's frustrating when you're in one of the groups that gets the shaft (not using the DDP and seeing the quality and prices of dining increase; not being an AP holder and seeing the new 15 month offer; etc.)
If you don't "buy" any of those arguments, be happy that your AP renewal will be for 15 months instead of 12!
WDWFigment
Member
"Roger" said:
I know in my previous post I stated that I disliked the DDP for doing this, but I wonder if it was actually the DDP. ; Look at merchandise in the last 5 years. ; It has gone from being attraction-specific, to only park-specific, to now being generic "Disney-Parks" merchandise. ; It wouldn't surprise me if homogenization would have occurred regardless of the DDP. ; When two things happen simultaneously, it's easy to confuse correlation with causation (especially when you don't know the whole story), maybe something else caused both? ; Maybe plans to cut costs caused the homogenization of merchandise, dining, and also caused the DDP to be offered? ; Just a possibility. ;
In any case, it undoubtedly caused the difficulty in walking up to a restaurant and getting in without a reservation. ; The death of spontaneity in dining at WDW can surely be attributed to that. ;
I concur with the merchandise, I know that started before the DDP, and I know the source (the Empire[nb]Where did Paul Pressler come from? ; I rest my case. ; Remember that after he was in charge of Disneyland he was promoted to overseeing all Disney Park operations....[/nb].
But I'm convinced that the dining changes was due to the DDP in an attempt to reduce costs while offering an apparent "value". ; Kevin Yee worked for many years while he was getting his doctorate in Disney Foods, and while it's not as relevant with the advent of more timely publications, spent plenty of time after he relocated to Orlando focusing on the restaurants. ; And it was right around the same time that the portions started getting smaller and more homogenized. ; One example, although I haven't seen it myself, is that the infamous Monte Cristo sandwich, usually only available at the Blue Bayou for lunch only - is now available at Cafe Orleans. ; Of course, it used to be that you could only get reservations for the Blue Bayou - the same day, so it was something special. ; Now, not so much other than it's the original sit by the river attraction restaurant.
But I'm convinced that the dining changes was due to the DDP in an attempt to reduce costs while offering an apparent "value". ; Kevin Yee worked for many years while he was getting his doctorate in Disney Foods, and while it's not as relevant with the advent of more timely publications, spent plenty of time after he relocated to Orlando focusing on the restaurants. ; And it was right around the same time that the portions started getting smaller and more homogenized. ; One example, although I haven't seen it myself, is that the infamous Monte Cristo sandwich, usually only available at the Blue Bayou for lunch only - is now available at Cafe Orleans. ; Of course, it used to be that you could only get reservations for the Blue Bayou - the same day, so it was something special. ; Now, not so much other than it's the original sit by the river attraction restaurant.
"zackiedawg" said:
What are you talking about they posted a huge loss for the last quarter after having a huge gain the quarter before that. ; The news here is reporting that Disney took a huge swing in the wrong direction over the past quarter and I blame all the freebies and give aways. ; According to my CM friends, they are saying the promotions have brought the wrong kind of clientèle into the park as guests. ; They parks are now full but full of people who are bargain hunters and don't spend money on souvenirs and higher priced dining experiences
For people like me who doesn't invest any money in the stock market other than the bare minimum required to get the full employer match, there really isn't any fuzzy math behind the purchase into the DVC. ; That's because I'm only losing 3% interest on the money that is tied into the DVC. ; The amount of money I pay for my DVC loan, plus dues, plus interest is less than what I normally paid for accommodations each year because if we had to stay in a value resort, we would stop going to WDW. ; To us, the trip isn't worth making if we have to stay in a value or moderate resort. ; Yes, we are that big of a resort snob.
DL's prices went up:
to $72, single park adult ticket (little less than 5%)
to $62 single park child ticket (bit more than 5%)
$429 for a premium AP (just over 10%)
The last one I'm kind of glad, the APs have been a thorn in DLR's side since the Pay-for-Light Magic Preview[nb]Actually I don't blame them for being angry about paying for an exclusive preview to be told that it's actually a dress rehearsal.[/nb], and their numbers are getting out of control. ; Apparently the park was the busiest mid-June, right before most of the passholders were locked out for the summer. ; Also, the AP price has finally caught up to where it was in Feb 2001, when you had to pay $399 to get both parks. ; Granted, it didn't take long for DLR to revise their pricing structure...
to $72, single park adult ticket (little less than 5%)
to $62 single park child ticket (bit more than 5%)
$429 for a premium AP (just over 10%)
The last one I'm kind of glad, the APs have been a thorn in DLR's side since the Pay-for-Light Magic Preview[nb]Actually I don't blame them for being angry about paying for an exclusive preview to be told that it's actually a dress rehearsal.[/nb], and their numbers are getting out of control. ; Apparently the park was the busiest mid-June, right before most of the passholders were locked out for the summer. ; Also, the AP price has finally caught up to where it was in Feb 2001, when you had to pay $399 to get both parks. ; Granted, it didn't take long for DLR to revise their pricing structure...
WDWFigment
Member
"Grumpwurst" said:
Disney didn't report huge gains last quarter (2Q): ; http://corporate.disney.go.com/investor ... 009_q2.pdf
I disagree about the discounting Disney has done. ; I don't think it's bringing a different clientele, but rather, the clientele that has always come is now more concerned with money and is existing on a tighter budget. ; They have cut frivolities, and that means they are spending less on souvenirs and dining. ; Disney has always done discounting (this discounting is no greater than historic discounts, it's just marketed better, and offered during the summer), so if it was going to attract the bargain hunting clientele, it already would have attracted them, in my opinion. ; Had Disney not discounted for the summer, I think not only would you see food & beverage and merchandise numbers down, but you'd see numbers across the board down.
"Grumpwurst" said:
I think it's fuzzy math in that if you're looking at it from an investment perspective, which many people do, you must compare it to other investments that you could have made, not just what you'd otherwise do with that money. ; I can justify making any purchase with that reasoning. ; For instance, my recent acquisition of 200 faberge eggs to throw at an alley wall was a prudent financial investment because I otherwise would've spent the money on cigarettes and booze, which would have cost me additional money in the long term.
I'm not contending that it's a bad purchase to make, just that you shouldn't look at it as an investment. ; I love DVC, and I agree that the accommodations are wonderful and well worth the money. ; I think the discounts and residual benefits are nice perks, and above all, it's something I just "wanted to be a part of". ; We can justify it or make arguments against DVC until we're blue in the face, but at the end of the day, all that really matters is that we spent our money in ways that make us happy. ; Purchasing DVC made, and continues to make, me happy. ; Heck, I will probably buy a lot more when all is said and done, because I know that having only 50 points is not going to make me happy enough!
I'm basing my comments about the quality of the clientle based on discussions I've had with friends who work both on and off stage at WDW and DL. ; They have noticed a definite change in the clientele. ; They are saying they are definitely not the same people and the first thing they noticed was the increased disregard for respect of the parks and it's image. ; There is increased shoplifting and vandalism. ; Include those observations with the decrease in retail purchasing and paying for dining experiences outside the scope of the DDP, it's easy to see that the people who are coming are a lower class group of people. ; It's much easier to see it at DL where the level of respect for the parks is greatly reduced compared to WDW, but WDW is catching up. ; A friend of mine at DL said that the people who frequent DL treat the park with as much respect as teenagers who go to a house party."WDWFigment" said:
My wife and I have also helped at least 5 families plan WDW vacations who have said the only reason they are going is because of the buy x nights get X nights free promotions and the free dining and they want to cash in before Disney "comes to their senses" and puts prices back to normal levels. ; Heck most of these families admit they don't really care for Disney products but they could not turn down a good deal. ; It really saddened my wife and i to hear such things because we don't think you should take a vacation to a location simply because the price is right and don't really care about where you are going. ; A few of these families came back saying they had a horrible time and I think it's because they went with the wrong attitude. ;
I have been wondering though how many of these people have taken these vacations purely on credit and are paying for it over time? ; I've noticed a mentality of Americans that they will buy just about anything if they think they are getting a great deal and they'll even spend money they don't have to get it. ;
I think Disney's best bet right now is to not care enough about growth and just maintain the status quo for awhile
"WDWFigment" said:
I have no idea where people get the idea that purchasing into the DVC is an investment. ; My guide and every piece of marketing I've read has clearly stated that buying into the DVC is a purchase of future stays at WDW at today's prices. ; I think if people buy into the DVC viewing it as an investment deserve the disappointment they receive when they realize that it isn't. ; I do think that the biggest mistake Disney made was allowing the term timeshare be applied to their product because it isn't and that is the only way I can think that people think it's an investment because timeshares, by definition, are viewed as investments because real estate is often viewed as an investment. ; But, I've been hearing a lot of the last 5 years that real estate shouldn't even be considered an investment anymore.
"Grumpwurst" said:
dvc is NOT an investment. ; it is only a hedge against future room prices. ; the price you paid to join vs. the price you would pay in a calendar year is the "return on investment". ; but, it's a flawed argument when you factor in dues and fees and the fact that you simply CANNOT and WILL NOT get your money back out of the product should you decide to sell it. ; there is a reason that dvcbyresale.com sells contracts for over 30% off the "rack rate" on a regular basis. ;
that being said, i just checked the dvcmember.com page and an annual pass for a dvc member increased from $369 to $389. ; i can live with a $20 increase, even if i am not crazy about it.
"Tim" said:
After my AP expired last year, I divided the amount I paid for my AP with my DVC discount by the number of park days I used it, and got something like $15/day. ; Even with a $20 increase, I could no complain about the value I got out of the AP. ; But, with the incoming 2 kids into our family in the next 6 months, I probably won't repeat that for 2009. ; But if we renew we could probably use that extra 3 months to cash in during 2009-2011 AP period (Dec 2009 - Feb 2011)
"Grumpwurst" said:
Sorry...being in the financial business, I think like a broker and not like a consumer. ; First off, Disney's Q2 wasn't a huge gain, but more importantly, analysts were expecting huge losses for Q3. ; What impacts a stock badly is when expectations are not met - in other words, if analysts put an expectation for a 25% loss, and a company loses 30%. ; In this case, Disney actually met analysts' expectations, which not many companies have done this past quarter. ; Moreover, signs hint at recovery in a few key sectors, with the biggest chunk of that loss coming out of the studios sector (lack of POTC franchise installment, Up! being only recent success, and no large releases on DVD). ; That's why I didn't say they made a profit, just that there are signs they may be stemming the bleeding.
"Grumpwurst" said:
I'm with you there. ; I can live with the increase in AP price. ; I get mine with the Florida Resident deal, which is I think slightly less than the DVC. ; Of course, as often as I go, they could raise the price another $100 and I'd still get my money's worth - Looking at the last pass which expired in June, I got 28 days off of it. ; Figure 28 days of multi-park passes, and I'm way ahead.
"Tim" said:
Got that right. ; Sure, you'll get something back if you sell your DVC, but nothing close to what you put in...and considering what you have to pay each year for maintenance fees, it keeps costing you down the road. ; Still, I basically waive the initial $25K I bought in for as a one-time extravagance, and justify the annual dues against what it would cost to stay at Disney 30 days a year. ; Even if I landed on Disney's special deals and stayed value all the way, I'd be well over the annual dues. ; And I don't like to stay value all the way, so I'm certainly able to justify the purchase of DVC that way. ; After about 20+ years, even the original investment will likely be close to break-even...and I'm on 13 years now. ; Plus, for those of us who bought in early, the price per point was a lot lower than it is now, so we at least stand a better chance of recouping close to our original investment if reselling (I got 440 points from $25K, so that's around $55 a point. Cost was around $65 a point, plus incentives and deals from buying into Boardwalk when new worked out a nice).