The last remnants of the old parking lot are gone...Cars Land here we come!

[Roger]

This is the editor's note from today at Miceage:

John Lasseter was in Anaheim yesterday for the WDI groundbreaking of Cars Land. After the ceremony and some DCA discussion, he and his wife spent the rest of their time just hanging out in Disneyland and charming the CM's who needed the morale boost. The mega-budget Cars Land project has begun!


It just continues to show how John's leadership is helping the once forgotten park. ; Since the Empire, the culture at TDA was to hunker in their triangle shaped bunker and not venture with the commoners. ; While Matt Ouimet tried to reverse that trend, he ended up not staying long with the company after they transferred him to DL from the cruise lines. ; His successors have done the same thing with not going into the park on a regular basis, and when they do, they dress up. ; Which changes the attitudes of the CMs in the park - which was true - ten years ago if you went to DL wearing a shirt/tie/suit, be prepared to be offered CM discounts automatically, and quick responses, held doors, etc. ; It happened to me. ; I even tried to tell them that I wasn't a "suit" (their term for the TDA staff).

Matt would wear tourist clothes and go to the park, and I think John does the same thing. ; No special favors, just wants to see how the park really works.

 

[ImagineeringMyWay]

While I am happy to see all the changes coming to DCA and will hopefully keep coming to the Disney Parks I am continually amazed the viral disgust and contempt for Eisner. ;

The fact is we may not even have the Disney Parks we know and love today if Roy Disney, Stanley Gold, etc had not put togther the team of Eisner and Wells and brought them to Walt Disney Production (now the Walt Disney Company). Ron Miller, Walt's son-in-law, failed to make Wall Street Raiders recognize the American Institution as a sacred entity as he had hope too. Ron takes a lot of unfair blame in the down turn in the company at the time yet he was the Chairman for a very short period of time.

Most likely what we would have today is the theme parks owned by one raider who wanted to keep them while selling off the video library to one bidder, the studio to another bidder etc. Just think, no Disney-MGM Studio, Animal Kingdom, Paris Disneyland etc. and that's a fact. Now we have no idea if the raider in question would have expanded or how, but he would not have had the resources of the entire Disney Co as we do today.

Is that to say the Eisner years are perfect, NO! But to forget Eisner and Wells saved the Disney Company is so often over looked it makes me laugh. On top of that, Roy Disney, Stanley Gold and most of the other board members went along with Eisner 99.9% of the time.

Reality is ugly sometimes, but it's true.

If any of you have not read Storming the Magic Kingdom, I highly recommend it.

 

[Roger]

There are two Eisner periods: ; the during Wells time and the post era. ; Unfortunately the damage was done in the later years, ; and it's not mainly Eisner but the staff he had running the parks.

Said staff that couldn't even run a clothing company later on.


I know that Eisner and Wells together were an excellent team; like Walt and Roy. ; But without Wells it seemed to be the beginning of the end of a legacy.

 

[prettypixie]

Interesting history lesson.

 

[Grumpwurst]

I think if you manage to have a failure that eclipses your greatest successes, history tends to forget those successes no matter how grand they are

 

[Roger]

I think if you manage to have a failure that eclipses your greatest successes, history tends to forget those successes no matter how grand they are

I agree. ; While this exact phrase can be used in a certain political history, my biggest example of one of the later failures of upper management was DCA. ; As a shareholder during that time I have the right to be upset about it. ; How much did that project cost? ; $600 million.

How much have they/will they spend to "fix" the park? ; Probably over $1.5 billion when you add everything up. ; When the park first opened, it was expected to bring in record crowds, so they priced it at the same level as Disneyland. ; AP? ; For twice the price you can visit both parks.

That didn't last long, just like greenlighting things like the Electrical Parade and a Tower of Terror on the cheap. ; Or adding a kids area "A Bug's Land" using minimally themed off-the-shelf rides, just like Dinoland USA. ; While Animal Kingdom didn't open as a full day park, you could at least see that they weren't finished when they opened. ; Asia was visibly under construction when the park opened, so you knew that the park was already still growing. ; Now Beastlie Kingdom[nb]Actually it seems that while a whole land dedicated to fantasy animals won't be coming, it appears that a new attraction is coming centered around the same.[/nb] will be missed, but I'll file that under the "Skyway Public Information Officer"[nb]The Internets was still in its' infancy when MK's Skyway closed, but I remember reading a news blurb from the PIO at the time. ; She claimed that the Skyway wasn't being removed because of the worker fatality, but to 'make room for a bigger and better attraction' (para). ; Now, what attraction replaced the Skyway?[/nb] file.

 

[ImagineeringMyWay]

There are two Eisner periods: ; the during Wells time and the post era. ; Unfortunately the damage was done in the later years, ; and it's not mainly Eisner but the staff he had running the parks.

Said staff that couldn't even run a clothing company later on.


I know that Eisner and Wells together were an excellent team; like Walt and Roy. ; But without Wells it seemed to be the beginning of the end of a legacy.

Thats a little better. We gotta be honest and not so broad brushing in our criticism. ; I really put a lot of blame on the Board of Directors who continually supported Eisner with no check and balances, Roy Disney included! And all in all there were still some good times after Wells passed on.

I still think DCA was a lot like Disney MGM when it opened. Eating and shows. The Studios has grown and now DCA is growing. Not unlike Disneyland itself in the early years. Was it Disney's best effort? Certainly not. But it has many delightful areas and good themeing with equal portions of half ass attempts. The less than stellar portions seem to out weigh the better portions.

Condor Flats is great but to small. Grizzly River for me way outshines Kali River Rapids. Paradise Pier was on track for what the old California seaside amusement parks were in their glory days except they stopped short on detail.

I like the DCA ToT. When we first got it I had not been on WDW's ToT. Short of the better queue that really really gives an impression of the grounds of a hotel, I don't find that WDW's ToT is that much better of a ride experience. They could of improved on the exit and the transition to the ride vehicle at DCA but I do enjoy the ride. The whole 5th Dimension portion is a waste to me. It was a way of themeing the transition from one tower to another. No Biggie for me. From what I understand Tokyo Disneyland's ToT uses the same ride system as DCA's but is better themed.

A few Imagineers I know say they have been trying to get management to do "re-uses", a term used in architecture when the plans are the same and used in a new location. The only thing you need to adjust usually is the engineering to accommodate local conditions. But it has been a long running traditions to make some kind of change when duplicating attractions for each new incarnation. ; Sometimes for the better, sometimes not. But in each case, even though they are similar, you have a different experience with each version.

 

[ImagineeringMyWay]

.......a kids area "A Bug's Land" using minimally themed off-the-shelf rides, just like Dinoland USA. ; ......

Just like Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom's Dumbo and teacups. Even the first Rocket Jets at Disneyland were just modified Carney rides. Disney's dark rides for that matter were just a better Carney dark ride with little to no theming at all on the facades.

 

[Coo1eo]

I sincerely hope they eventually bring Cars Land to WDW's Magic Kingdom. Just re-theme Tomorrowland Speedway & you're there.

 

[ImagineeringMyWay]

I sincerely hope they eventually bring Cars Land to WDW's Magic Kingdom. Just re-theme Tomorrowland Speedway & you're there.

I've talked about this on my Podcast and there are certainly some good ways to do it.

 

[Roger]

I sincerely hope they eventually bring Cars Land to WDW's Magic Kingdom. Just re-theme Tomorrowland Speedway & you're there.

Uhh it's a little more than that. ; Radiator Springs Racing is going to be a...lot different than the Speedway/Autopia.

 

[Coo1eo]

Sorry Roger, I didn't mean to make it sound that simple. I meant give the Speedway a complete overhaul & that the Speedway seemed like an obvious location to bring it to WDW.

 

[Roger]

Ahhh yes it would seem like the right place but I think the train tracks won't give it enough room, unless you only want Cars Land Lite. ; BTW it seems that the Fantasyland expansion at MK has been given a green light....

 

[mSummers]

BTW it seems that the Fantasyland expansion at MK has been given a green light....

I have mixed feelings on that... ; I hate to see Toontown get demolished since that was one of my favorite places as a kid. ; But, it would be nice to pick up VotLM since its supposed to be a great ride. ; I guess I'd rather see them leave Toontown alone and fit what they can of the rest of the expansion in next to it.

Are there any rumors on when they'll start the demolition?

 

[Roger]

http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky072109a.htm

From what Kevin's found, and I'll bet it was also from John Frost's sources as well, Lasseter overruled TDLBV and mandated the renovation, and it's been greenlit. ; This makes sense because the last communication has been that TDLBV hasn't wanted to spend one dime on attractions = so they wouldn't get the new Star Tours or the new Little Mermaid attraction.

But Burbank didn't like that, especially with the Star Tours issue.

I'm guessing that it will be after the summer. ; DCA has begun demolition for their TLM ride, so I'm sure they would love to buy things in bulk for it.

Kevin's article also has the Disappearing Hat rumor as well.

 

[Grumpwurst]

Very good article you linked to Roger.

I especially liked Kevin's take on the Fast Pass system. ; I have always felt that the FP system actually made the lines move slower but gave the people with Fast Passes feel like they were getting something

 

[ImagineeringMyWay]

Fast Pass is EVIL! It does indeed slow down the line for standby guests. It also has destroyed the experience of some of the more elaborate queues like Indiana Jones. Disneyland has also cut back on the use of Fast Pass on some attractions. Pirates no longer has it and Haunted Mansion only uses it during the Holiday Overlay.

"Back in the day" when park management saw that lines were getting bad they would order up another "people eater". Dick Nunis was know for this. There is one sure fire way to balance out the wait in lines and that is replacing under preforming rides and also adding new rides with high rider capacities. Shows also help with this.

America Sings had the highest ride capacity in the park when it was closed to be raped for Splash Mountain. We were promised a new attraction which never happened. After years we got Innoventions. They might as well kept it shut!

As to Toon Town at the Magic Kingdom, its about time if rumors play out with the Fantasyland expansion. It was planned as a temporary celebration and even the construction method reflects it's temporary status. I must admit was laughed when Kevin spoke about MiceChat folks debating the authenticity of the drawings and the smudges. They must not work in the field of design and architecture. Quite frankly I could have a good time faking a lot of expansions and rides. I could do them 3D as well. That might be fun to watch the Disney community het their panties in wad over something like that, since people like Kevin Lee and castmember enjoy getting the community in a fever over rumors. i know castmember who do this on a regular basis. they get their kicks that way.

Like most rumors I am kind of a wait and see guy. When I worked at Disneyland there were so many rumors you really had to wait and see the construction start before you could count on it. We kept hearing about the 2nd gate at DL and I said when I see a new parking lot I will believe it. It took years from the first rumors until we saw a relocated parking lot and that when it was time to get excited. When I started in the late 80's we were told ; Alien Enconters was coming soon to Mission to Mars which kept closing and reopening for the last time over and over.

Touring Imagineering in Glendale was no better. Imagineers would show and tell us what they were developing and then we would never see it. We saw a fantastic new idea for Tiki Room at the Magic Kingdom. We got Under New Management. Should have just left it alone or made it seasonal. The list goes on and on.

Back then WDI did not have say over the parks per se, park management did. ; Being that all the Disney Companies have separate identities wrapped under the corporate umbrella of the Walt Disney Company, WDI did not tell Disneyland what to do for example. If DL wanted a new attraction, they asked. So I see why WDW might have put off WDI with some of the expansions that are rumored. It's an issue that is also prevalent with maintenance. When an attraction is under construction, WDI has total control. Once it is "turned over" to a park, its that parks responsibility to maintain. The parks have complained for years that their is no check and balances on WDI because they do not have to maintain the attractions. This is an old story in architecture and is not unique to Disney. The new Fanatsyland at DL added many effects such as smoke coming out of the chimneys on top of Toad Hallow which have not worked for years. ; The park simply does not have the budget or just does not want to maintain these things.

IF WDI had to maintain the attractions things might be different, or NOT! The Yeti is another example of a design which leads to difficult maintenance. ; Its not often WDI gets the actual people who will operate and maintain these attractions in on the early stages of design. Again this is another old architectural problem. Designers think they know better and do not ant their creative mojo jumbled up over small details like maintenance.

The aforementioned new idea for Tiki Room comes to mind again. I was talking to maintenance folks at Disneyland about it and they hated the idea. They saw it as a hugh pain in the backside to maintain. ;

There are so many different levels to consider in the overall issues of ride design, park management and maintennace that there is no ONE person to blame.

 

[mSummers]

While ToonTown was meant to be temporary, and the tents obviously showcase that fact, the houses seem to be fairly well built. ; I was hoping that since it had become more permanent than originally intended, that they would replace the tents with something more permanent, maybe another ride and a show or two featuring the Fab 5. ;

I just hate to see the only place in the park dedicated to the characters who started it all removed in favor of the current marketing trend. ; Its not like the place is always empty... ; The last time I was there I didn't bother to stop and take any pictures because it was absolutely packed.

 

[ImagineeringMyWay]

While ToonTown was meant to be temporary, and the tents obviously showcase that fact, the houses seem to be fairly well built. ; I was hoping that since it had become more permanent than originally intended, that they would replace the tents with something more permanent, maybe another ride and a show or two featuring the Fab 5. ;

I just hate to see the only place in the park dedicated to the characters who started it all removed in favor of the current marketing trend. ; Its not like the place is always empty... ; The last time I was there I didn't bother to stop and take any pictures because it was absolutely packed.

I understand the connection ones gets to an attraction or area. Over the years I have lost many favorites, Mine Train thru Natures Wonderland, Pirate Ship Restaurant, Carousel of Progress, America Sings, etc etc. For the most part each loss has come with an improvement.

You are correct that the structures are well built, they have survived many hurricanes and heavy storms. Though they are not built in a manner consistent with typical show buildings. I believe they are built out of "butler buildings" which at Disneyland typically house maintenance buildings and parade floats.

I think the one thing that separates Toon Town at Disneyland and Toon Town Fair at the Magic Kingdom is that Mickey, Minnie, Donald & Goofy all have "residences" making it a home to the foundation of the company. At the Magic Kingdom it was a birthday celebration gone long if I remember correctly.

It's not the only place dedicated to Toons. Fantsayland is almost entirely dedicated to toons. Cinderella Castle, Peter Pan, Pooh, Dumbo, Ariel, etc. Tomorrowland has toons in Buzz and Stitch. ; Adventureland has toons with Aladdin's Carpets. Frontierland has toons with Splash Mountain.

Toons have invaded a park Disney orginally said would not have Disney Characters, EPCOT Center. Not that Country Bears are toons, but why have Country Bear Characters walking around in World Showcase at Epcot? I found that odd on one trip.

Toons are all over Animal Kingdom. They show up at the Studios. So I am not sure the toons are being slighted by any means. ;

I do agree that the area we have seen on "leaked" plans looks like an obvious play towards the latest marketing ploy. Not the first attempt at connecting the parks to company projects by any means. Walt did it in 1955 when he named the castle Sleepy Beauty's Castle years before the film was release to the public.

I do think the meet and greets are over played. I personally do not like them. When Toon Town opened at Disneyland my kids were young. But after standing in line for more than an hour at Mickey's House neither my kids nor I were that impressed by this way of controlling the experience of toon guest control. These areas would be put to much better use with attractions that family's could spend time togther on. Just an opinion of course. Somebody must like these things since Disney keeps embracing them.

 

[mSummers]

I think the one thing that separates Toon Town at Disneyland and Toon Town Fair at the Magic Kingdom is that Mickey, Minnie, Donald & Goofy all have "residences" making it a home to the foundation of the company. At the Magic Kingdom it was a birthday celebration gone long if I remember correctly.

Mickey, Minnie, and Donald all have houses at the Magic Kingdom as well. ;

While it is certainly not the only place dedicated to toons, it is the only place at WDW dedicated to the toons who are the foundation of the company, and I hate to see them get rid of that.